Curse

Advocate · May 14, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Well met,

My apologies to those at this site who have to read this, but I was advised by ArenaNet to post my question on fan forums. So, here we go. (please pardon any bad spelling or grammar)

Dear ArenaNet,

It with a great sadness that I feel the need to write to you formally with a complaint regarding Guild Wars Factions. I have been playing Guild Wars for nearly a year now and have had an impossibly good experience through out all that time. You have managed to create a fantastic game and since it remains free to play you have been consistent in updates and maintenance and I commend your dedication and efforts to make this the best possible game you can.

My complaint however has unfortunately shattered this perfect picture. Before Factions was released information was given to the community detailing the content of Factions along with the how and why people who own both Prophecies and Factions could link their two accounts to become one. There was much debate across many fan forums and websites as to the number of character slots and the like. Finally the following information was released.

'A Factions account offers 4 slots that provide access to the Cantha only, just as Guild Wars (the original Prophecies campaign) offers 4 slots for access to Tyria. If you choose to link your Prophecies and Factions accounts, you will have a total of 6 character slots, and all characters will be able to access to all areas of the map.' (Guild Wars Factions Official FAQ)
http://guildwars.com/support/faq/gui...ctions-faq.php

Now this caused a stir in the community to say the least. Many people, myself included could not understand why someone who purchased factions and played it separately was allowed to have 4 character slots while someone who purchased it and linked it only gained two character slots. In effect if you purchased and linked Factions you we not getting a full product. When this question was put to yourselves the response was give that those who linked their accounts gained access to all content, Gaile Gray on occasions passed on the information to us that linking would allow us to have 6 characters with 100% access as apposed to 4 with 50%.

After much debate it was clear to at least myself that to have 6 characters with 100% access to all content was indeed better then 4 characters (or more accurately 8) with 50% access. And so it was I made my decision to link accounts.

Now, a few weeks into the release, it has come to light that when transporting my Cathan born Assassin to Tyria, after completing all available missions in Cantha (all missions to master level I might add) I find I can do nothing with my character before Lions Arch. None of the missions that where available to Tyrian natives are available to my Canthan. While I have not taken my Assassin any further east to the shiverpeaks or Ascalon beyond, I have read on many forums that Co-op missions are blocked as well as certain areas of the map. On the flip of this when I brought my Elementalist from Tyria to Cantha, again I found that certain missions and quests are not available for Tyrians when they are for Canthans (I refer to most content around the shing jea monastery) Areas are barred and cannot be accessed due to not being able to partake of the missions that open them up.

It has been noted that your new Explorer Titles have taken this into account and as a Tyrian in Cantha or Canthan in Tyria we do not need to open 100% of the map only 100% of the map we have access to.

Now I come to the pinnacle of my complaint. And I refer you to the above quote and more:

'A Factions account offers 4 slots that provide access to the Cantha only, just as Guild Wars (the original Prophecies campaign) offers 4 slots for access to Tyria. If you choose to link your Prophecies and Factions accounts, you will have a total of 6 character slots, and all characters will be able to access to all areas of the map.' (Guild Wars Official FAQ my highlights)

'When you purchase Guild Wars Factions, you will receive an access key. Simply open the Guild Wars log-in screen and follow the prompts to add the Factions access key to your Guild Wars Prophecies account. Then you will have access to all Prophecies and Factions content.' (Guild Wars Official FAQ my highlights)
http://guildwars.com/support/faq/gui...ctions-faq.php

When did 'able to access to all areas of the map.' and 'have access to all Prophecies and Factions content.' equate to blocked areas and restricted missions?

'Yep, the Assassin and Ritualist can do the Tyrian missions and quests' (04/04/2006 Gaile Gray in game chat)
Sorc. http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=392746

Not once were we told that when we link our accounts our characters would have limited access to certain areas of the game world based upon their nation of birth.

Since were where clearly told that by linking our accounts we would gain 100% access to all content and no where has it even been hinted at that we would have restricted access, you must provide this. Your failure to do so means you obtained money from all those who purchased Factions under false pretenses. As far as I am aware several unhappy members across the forums have sent complaints but it seems that no official statement has be released as to how and why this situation arose. Your false advertising, misrepresentation and false/misleading information are illegal. As a consumer who purchased a product under the belief it would perform to a set standard based upon the information you gave, I am exceedingly disappointed that it does not as well as being highly irritated that you have made absolutely no attempt to explain why.

When I sent a request to you only available contact line (Support) regarding this matter this was the response I received:

'We appreciate you sharing your concerns with us on these potential issues. We have determined that this issue is not a bug, and that the game is working as designed.

Please feel free to share your suggestions or feedback about any matter on the fansite forums listed at http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansites/. The game developers frequently check fansite message boards to obtain feedback and suggestions players may have concerning these types of issues.

Your comments have been passed onto the developers, however we will not hear back from them, and thus will not be able to reply with there comments.'

This shocked me so much that I could do little else but laugh. Not only do you not answer direct questions about parts of the game people are unhappy with, you do not actually have a complaints department to whom I can send this. (If you do you need to make it easier to get hold of because I have search your site and found nothing but Support) Further to this, as you stated in the e-mail response, you suggested that I post this upon a fan site that the Dev Team will check for feedback and suggestions. This is unacceptable. If I have an issue with a product you produce I must have a suitable complaints procedure which I may follow. Asking that questions, especially complaints, be randomly posted on a forum in the hope that someone might read it is just comical.

Based upon all of your performance with this issue I have every right to take this matter to trading standards and say to hell with you, let the law sort it out (I am sure there are plenty of other people out there who would join any legal action against you in a class action, most would be doing it purely for money). However, I am a nice person. I recognize your position as the kid on the block of online games and do not wish to cripple your business with such a devastating lawsuit. I do not want to let this spoil my enjoyment of Guild Wars. I want everyone to be happy and have fun and for you to prosper and continue to produce fantastic games. You and only you can make this happen. Realize your mistake and either correct them or compensate those how have been effected by them.

Let us hope a member of the development team does read this and do something about it.

{integral} · May 14, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I agree that ArenaNet ought not to have misled us. Completely and utterly. Yet, I feel that there is not a single thing we can do that will get it changed. Not once has a multinational corporation listened to the public's discontent and made a fundamental change to their product without involving the law.

I have become rather disillusioned with ArenaNet in the past few weeks. While I love their game, the service with which they provide us can be, frankly, appalling - especially when I consider the way we are treated as we attempt to regain access to the accounts they have falsely banned.

This thread was not created in order for us all to discuss our personal gripes with ArenaNet. It was created to ask why they deliberately coerced us into buying their product under false pretences, which is, I feel, the question on everyone's lips.

I can foresee Gaile appearing on this thread in a while, nice as it is to see her, interpreting legal talk from Head Office in a manner we can all understand, making it seem like ArenaNet didn't ever tell us we'd be able to access 100% of the game with our characters. This is all well and good, providing our displeasure is forwarded and we receive an adequate reply. Not just "We have relayed your query to the Support Team" or somesuch guff. A reply from the developers, or whoever else is responsible for this, through Gaile or Alex or whoever. Even an apology would suffice. Just something to show that they have acknowledged they misled us. As I said before, I do not think we're going to get it changed.

We eagerly await your response, ArenaNet.

Canadian Bacon · May 14, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

You are completely right about you everything you said up there in your complaint letter. We, the players, were most difinitely mislead, and none of Gaile's fuzzy math can change that.

Everyone grab your pitchforks and torches, we're forming an Angry Mob!!!

To Anet Headquarters we march!!!

Seriously though, Anet really needs to first admit that they lied, and then meet our demands regarding full access to both continents, regardless of a chracter's birthplace. Although, I have a feeling that in order to make their words match their actions, they would much sooner edit the text on the website than give us what we want.

Oh, and btw, where's this auction house/trade imporvement we have heard so much about?

Anet, don't turn into EA. Don't rush chapter 3. Even if you need to delay it a month, DO NOT SCREW IT UP!!! Make sure everything is perfect, and then release it. And for the love of God/Buddah/other religious figure DON'T YOU DARE EVER LIE TO YOUR PUBLIC AGAIN!!! Word on the street is that its a great way to lose money in record time.

aeroclown · May 14, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

While I would tend to agree with the op I must say I think its all a matter of interpetation

This is quote from the guildwars site:

Quote:

Will there be additional character slots on my existing account, if I purchase Guild Wars Factions?

A Factions account offers 4 slots that provide access to the Cantha only, just as Guild Wars (the original Prophecies campaign) offers 4 slots for access to Tyria. If you choose to link your Prophecies and Factions accounts, you will have a total of 6 character slots, and all characters will be able to access to all areas of the map.

I would ask of you where in there does it say "All Content". It dosn't, and while you might have access to all areas of a map, you may not have access to all content. Though that is vile water to tred in.

I would imagine that it would be more correct for the consumer to believe that as an owner of both factions and prophicies you should be entitled to full content access with all characters. I must however say I am of the feeling that since Our characters come from cantha they are unaware of the plight that be fell ascalon, and as such your quest and story line start in the Lions gate and not in old ascalon.

RE: Auction houses

This was not something that was to be officially added to chapter 2. Its been discussed about a thousand times and all leads point to such things coming in the interm of Ch2 and 3.

salaboB · May 14, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

I would ask of you where in there does it say "All Content". It dosn't, and while you might have access to all areas of a map, you may not have access to all content. Though that is vile water to tred in.

If you can't get into and wander around the Nolani Academy mission (As an example) then you don't have access to all areas of the map. If you could just wander the terrain with the mission inactive, you would have access to the areas without the content.

Mandy Memory · May 14, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I do agree, although I do not want all access and I do not believe that they have took part in any false advertisement, I think that the statements which were made, and you highlighted, are extremely general and could be misinterpreted to mean a number of things.

Loviatar · May 14, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advocate

I found that certain missions and quests are not available for Tyrians when they are for Canthans (I refer to most content around the shing jea monastery) Areas are barred and cannot be accessed due to not being able to partake of the missions that open them up.

.

this part of your lost content does not stand to reason.

it is the equivalent of chapter 1 presear which is also blocked.

i see nobody demanding access to presear so why should they have access to all presear equivalent in chapter 2?

aside from a few missions (1/2) i found access to most of the island with my Tyria elemonk.

i see no room for complaint on that side.

Quajai · May 14, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I hear you on this. The only good reason I can think of doing this is so there wouldn't be a bunch of high level Tyrians doing early Cathan missions and messing it up for the new players and vice versa. Maybe they will open it up later. Here's to hoping.

Grais · May 14, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

This is the reason I quit playing GW. Tired of all the fanboiitis that constanly seems to surround this game, it all stems from the fact that theres no monthly fee, well I dont know one First Person Shooter, and lets be honest GW is a FPS with , Ive never heard of one that charges a monthly fee. It is not an RPG game, it is not a competitive RPG game, there is no role playing, the character are shallow and one dimensional, all you do is kill the opponent.The only games I know of that charge a monthly fee, are actually RPG games, Everquest, Lineage, World of Warcraft with content too make it 'seem' worthwhile. The company has been lying from the start when they tried to pass this off as a MMORPG, which just happens to be the fastest selling segment of the gaming industry, it aint no coincidence.
Anyways people have been fooled for a long time, and the glow I think is finally starting to wear off.
You give people something 'they think' they are getting for free and they will follow you for a long time, only know are all the lies, lets be honest and call a spade a spade, only know are all the lies Anet has shared, whether intentional or not, now they are coming back to bite them on the derrier.
I'll tell you what I honestley forsee for this game, not that I think many even care, they will rush as fast as they can the next, LAST, 2 editions out, before the backlash gets so bad, screw the auction system, screw the LFG system, 'just get the game out while we can still make a bit of cash of it.'
Im sorry, the day they announced that they would be selling character slots, I quit playing, went out the same day and bought World of Warcraft, I guess if you want a real MMORPG experience you can either pay or play on private servers, or settle for weak substititue, it worked for a while, but not for long, never got more than 5 months(3 toons with over 5 million XP combined) into it, after clearing the high level areas for the 10'th time what else is there? Nothing.

Loviatar · May 14, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grais

The company has been lying from the start when they tried to pass this off as a MMORPG,.

get your facts straight before you move on to your grind game.

Anet never tried to say it was an MMORPG instead clarifing that it was a new model.

in case you havent figured it out this is not meant to be a permanent babysitter for you 24/7/365 of content to grind.

it is play it til it is not so much fun and then come back when you want to play more or the next chapter comes out.

bye

5 months of play and you bitch about it?

mega_jamie · May 14, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

While I would tend to agree with the op I must say I think its all a matter of interpetation

This is quote from the guildwars site:

I would ask of you where in there does it say "All Content". It dosn't, and while you might have access to all areas of a map, you may not have access to all content. Though that is vile water to tred in.

I would imagine that it would be more correct for the consumer to believe that as an owner of both factions and prophicies you should be entitled to full content access with all characters. I must however say I am of the feeling that since Our characters come from cantha they are unaware of the plight that be fell ascalon, and as such your quest and story line start in the Lions gate and not in old ascalon.

RE: Auction houses

This was not something that was to be officially added to chapter 2. Its been discussed about a thousand times and all leads point to such things coming in the interm of Ch2 and 3.

Although it never was posted on the official site that we could do every thinki, Gaile Grey, emissary to the people from Anet, and giver of infromation that she is only sure is 100% factual told us, simply 8x50% or 6x100%

I can see arguments aimed at "well you have 6 slots with 100% access, you choose what part of that 100% they cana ccess" but that is just silly, she really should have went more in depth and stated that the slots, not the characters on those could access everything initially. Considering she comes to give her little talks in a PvE outpost one would assume that something like that was aimed at PvE content, as PvE char can access all modes of PvP.

I do feel we were mislead, quite gravely, I don't feel bad I cant do Shing Jea Monestary with ym Warrior, except that I cant become a Protector of Cantha now. And yeah, bit silly to let lvl 20s go and pwn those missions, but theres nothing stopping a Tyrian character getting ran to Drok's, power elveled and maxed armour, and then goign back, at level 20 to do Great Northern Wall.

Also, since its not really goign back in the storyline to get to Shing Jea its also silly to ban us from going.

I am a PvE player, I hate PvP quite honestly, and when I heard Factions was going to be PvP heavy, even in PvE environs, Jade Sea etc, I was consoled by being led ot beleive I could do the entire Propheices campaign.

Also, I dont really give a flying wossit about storyline, and atleast in Prophecies neither did Anet, you could kill a score of White Mantle before you find out they are evil, or Watch Rurik die and then go back and fight with him.
Now they od care about Story Continuity with their silly gates that stop people from having fun, I dont see the point exploring, since anywhere I'm meant to go, I will get sent to eventually, So I refuse to except any of the "Story Line" excuses in why we can't do Tyria.

Having moved characters betwene both contenants, I have noticed that Mehnlo seems to have been born and raised in Cantha, and also in Tyria.

I know that I have no idea of game coding, and I hate it when people say "how hard can it be for the Devs to...." But I'm afraid I have to say it this time, How hard can It be for the Dev's to remove whatever coding is stopping us from entering Greath Northern Wall, etc with our Assassin.

I bet their isnt many lines ot that code, probably only a few, and Anet, if you do read thi, please consider removing those lines of Code, if a player has the huge "I must obey the story line" thing going, then they wont go back ot Ascalon and pick up Tyira fro there, but Im sure that a large population of the GW community would be feel much more grateful if they could do Great Northern Wall if they wanted to.

Overnite · May 14, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grais

This is the reason I quit playing GW. Tired of all the fanboiitis that constanly seems to surround this game, it all stems from the fact that theres no monthly fee, well I dont know one First Person Shooter, and lets be honest GW is a FPS with , Ive never heard of one that charges a monthly fee. It is not an RPG game, it is not a competitive RPG game, there is no role playing, the character are shallow and one dimensional, all you do is kill the opponent.The only games I know of that charge a monthly fee, are actually RPG games, Everquest, Lineage, World of Warcraft with content too make it 'seem' worthwhile. The company has been lying from the start when they tried to pass this off as a MMORPG, which just happens to be the fastest selling segment of the gaming industry, it aint no coincidence.
Anyways people have been fooled for a long time, and the glow I think is finally starting to wear off.
You give people something 'they think' they are getting for free and they will follow you for a long time, only know are all the lies, lets be honest and call a spade a spade, only know are all the lies Anet has shared, whether intentional or not, now they are coming back to bite them on the derrier.
I'll tell you what I honestley forsee for this game, not that I think many even care, they will rush as fast as they can the next, LAST, 2 editions out, before the backlash gets so bad, screw the auction system, screw the LFG system, 'just get the game out while we can still make a bit of cash of it.'
Im sorry, the day they announced that they would be selling character slots, I quit playing, went out the same day and bought World of Warcraft, I guess if you want a real MMORPG experience you can either pay or play on private servers, or settle for weak substititue, it worked for a while, but not for long, never got more than 5 months(3 toons with over 5 million XP combined) into it, after clearing the high level areas for the 10'th time what else is there? Nothing.

OMFG I've never agreed more with anyone on any GW forum, will you father my children ?

Quajai · May 14, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

We are really talking about clarity here and the burden is on Anet to be clear with us. I know that is difficult at times but I think they dropped the ball in this instance.

When we here things like "100%" and "all the map" it is reasonable to assume as I did that all the things that my Tyrian characters are experiencing will be available to my new Cathan characters. I know there can be different interpretations but let's be reasonable. I mean how hard would it have been to make it clear by saying something like "yes your Tyrian characters will have access to all of Cantha except for a few early beginning missions."

So either Anet intentionally was vague because they knew there would be a backlash against not being able to do certain missions or there was a disconnect between their design/programming teams and their public relations people as to what the product would really be.

Rogier · May 14, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

we've been misled, and i'm sure they'll act like this thread was never even started.. too sad, cause the community deserves a honest awnser!

FoxBat · May 14, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

"Fuzzy math" always completely missed the point for me. I don't want to be told by Anet why I, as a customer, should feel content with 6 slots and not 8. I would like to be told by Anet why *they* feel 6 slots is more important for their servers/business than 8.

Basically I know anyway, account sharing, but they could've just be honest about it from the start. Companies don't pretend that copy protection is aimed at anything but consumer piracy, don't see why this is terribly different.

Thom · May 14, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

There is a clear business model that A-net has in mind. From day one people from the RPG side and the FPS side have complained about opposite aspects of the game. Guild Wars is what it is, which is a light cooperative RPG with a top level PvP component (CORPG). The game appeals most to those who came from diablo and M:TG, not EQ or Counterstrike.

A-net doesn't go out of there way to lie, but they have been dealing with demanding fans from a variety of backgrounds for a long time. Trying to explain how they see their business model as working has caused confusion. Combine that with the fact that some feature are simply in the works and other have led to major abuse. Through the testing process you see one system implimented, abused and replaced over and over again. This makes it more difficult for someone like Gaile who as community liason.

Some of your complaints are nit-picking. There were plenty of sources available that said that characters will come accross at a port and have access to all the high level material. If you were thinking with your brain and not your ass, you would realize that there is some benefit to having newbie zones which become exclusive and some content which is one time only (15 attribute quests and loads of easily one skill points). Powerleveling would be really simple if you had access to two newbie zones: you would do the Tyria zone and get skill quests, run to LA, run get on the island and get all your easy free skills and skill points.

Bottom line is an has aways been, full access to everything opens up the type of abuse that makes a game less fun. The goal of PvE in GW is to make following the campaign, doing the designed quests and farming the highest level areas the most profitable thing to do. In order to do that, certain limitations are put on the openness of the game.

If you took off your overly literalist glasses and looked at things in context, you wouldn't be suprised by anything A-net does. A-net has its share of issues, but these really aren't them.

Fantus · May 14, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Whether I can or can not access the early missions with my Canthan chars or vice versa is not really an issue for me. But: My most favorite char is a Tyrian, though and she's the only one I care about collecting titles for. It does NOT seem that I can get "Protector of Cantha" with her. Yes, I do want that changed. Titles should not be restricted to specific nationalities. It does not really make sense that I can get Master Rewards for 11 missions required and being prevented from getting the title by not being able to access the two EASIEST ones.

Njall · May 14, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

well I dont know one First Person Shooter, and lets be honest GW is a FPS with , Ive never heard of one that charges a monthly fee.

Here you're wrong : Planetside is a MMOFPS with a monthly fee

Quote:

ou were thinking with your brain and not your ass, you would realize that there is some benefit to having newbie zones which become exclusive and some content which is one time only (15 attribute quests and loads of easily one skill points). Powerleveling would be really simple if you had access to two newbie zones: you would do the Tyria zone and get skill quests, run to LA, run get on the island and get all your easy free skills and skill points.

Ok.. so let the tyrian be unable to do the quests in Shing Jea but give them access to the coops : it will please those who want to become Protector of Cantha and Protector of Tyria.. will please those who want to become Grand Master Cartographer in the 2 realms... and won't cause a problem of powerleveling. 2 coops are 10k xp (I think) and 6 skill points...I can do more in Sorrows's Furnace with a good team

Quote:

The only good reason I can think of doing this is so there wouldn't be a bunch of high level Tyrians doing early Cathan missions and messing it up for the new players

Actually, there is only a bunch of high level Canthan doings early Canthan missions

UndeadRoadkill · May 14, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

If you took off your overly literalist glasses and looked at things in context, you wouldn't be suprised by anything A-net does. A-net has its share of issues, but these really aren't them.

'All characters will be able to access to all areas of the map' doesn't sound like a figurative statement no matter what pair of glasses you're wearing. Any way you slice it, it's blatantly untrue.

primal98 · May 14, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grais

This is the reason I quit playing GW. Tired of all the fanboiitis that constanly seems to surround this game.....
Im sorry, the day they announced that they would be selling character slots, I quit playing, went out the same day and bought World of Warcraft, I guess if you want a real MMORPG experience you can either pay or play on private servers, Nothing.

Please enlighten me. If you quit GW, and went out and purchased World of Warcraft.... why are you here?

~prime